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Post subject: Discussion Point: Web accelerators and Argonopedia!
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Think you might become the victim of an auto-ban? Want to talk about this sort of stuff? Fancy a rant?
Go on, get it out here.
_________________
I didn't want to hurt you, but you're pretty when you cry
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED |
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 Thu May 27, 2004 8:24 pm |
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I think it's fair. Download pages and you get banned. Simple as. 
But accidents HAVE to happen 
Go Newcastle!  |
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| Fri May 28, 2004 8:03 pm |
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Nah, download pages *too fast* and you get banned.
Just un-banned one poor sod from Poland who got banned somehow... don't know how, he wasn't downloading very fast at all - only about ten pages per minute, which is well within the safe zone.
Looks like I'll need to tweak things a bit, as we go.
_________________
I didn't want to hurt you, but you're pretty when you cry
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED |
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| Fri May 28, 2004 8:12 pm |
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Post subject: Downloading Pages
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Well for what it's worth I think it's a great idea, I can't begin to imaging the bandwidth this site chews through when there are a lot of people viewing pages....
Just wondering about one little thing tho.. - when I come on to view new msgs etc, I usually just click on each title that has new topics and open them in a separate tab (tabbed browser)
I also do the same when I am comparing ships or stations etc, I usually just click on each ship I want to compare, opening each one in a new window all within a few seconds from each other...
Would this be likely to trigger an "accident" ??? |
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| Sat May 29, 2004 9:03 am |
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If you open enough then yes
however you can compare ships using the ships comarison tabels and using the column headers to compare that way (they just dont show lasers)
_________________
Demonstrate and replicate. To set the tone, sit back and wait. |
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| Sat May 29, 2004 8:20 pm |
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Post subject: Opening Pages
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Thanks for that, I guess I'm lucky in that there aren't too many ships of the same class to open at the same time then
I have tried using the comparison tables (sorting them into their classes etc), but having all the other ships in the list as well tend to make it a little confusing for me (I get confused very easy) and I do like to see the prices and weapons as they are a big factor in thinking about purchasing.
Ohwell, I will be sure to slow down my button clicking when loading multiple ships or stations |
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| Sat May 29, 2004 11:23 pm |
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Do IP's get un-banned after a certain time automatically (say 6-12 hours or so) ?
Because (at least here in Europe) IP's are assigned dynamically by the ISP, so if my current IP gets banned, after reinitialising the internet connection somebody else (now owning my old IP) is banned ?
_________________
To an artificial mind, all reality is virtual.
[The Animatrix] |
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| Sun May 30, 2004 2:19 am |
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i dont know much about downloading and acceleretors... i use the basic explorer, that sometimes can save some stuff in internet temp files (4 the not online mode)...
i risk to be banned?
_________________
prrr  |
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| Sun May 30, 2004 2:37 pm |
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We ban the IP used at that time.
You are only banned if you access too many pages within a minuite
_________________
Demonstrate and replicate. To set the tone, sit back and wait. |
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| Sun May 30, 2004 6:28 pm |
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| -ZoT- wrote: |
i dont know much about downloading and acceleretors... i use the basic explorer, that sometimes can save some stuff in internet temp files (4 the not online mode)...
i risk to be banned? |
If you tell Internet Exploerer to "make this site available off-line" you could be banned. If you just browse normally, and work in off-line mode later, you probably won't.
Either way, if you're browsing interactively, you should get a warning on every page well within time. Even if you're opening lots of pages ina new window, you should see the warning long before you get banned.
I was away this weekend, and while I was away three people emailed me to ask me to un-ban them. One was his own fault - he "tested" the ban mechanism, to find that it worked. The other two were surprised at their bans.
If this turns out to be too ban-happy, it's possible to work with more temporary solutions. Our bandwidth picture is looking fab at the moment, but the whole point of this discussion point is to see whether it's actually working, or just banning regular users due to odd browser behaviour.
_________________
I didn't want to hurt you, but you're pretty when you cry
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED |
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| Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:03 pm |
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As i said before: if you ban the IP's permanentely and the banned computer disconnects from the internet, the IP is available again. So the internet provider will assign this IP to someone else who is connecting.
This could be a solution why some people got banned although they didn't do anything (biiiig coincidence however, as there are thousands of different IP's and only a few of them visit your site)
I have to say, I don't believe this banning really helps keeping down your traffic. Maybe a little. But if someone doesn't read the warning on the main page (why should they? It's only bold, not red, and which first-time-visitor reads the news anyway?) he won't disable his web-accelerator or will still try to download the entire site.
There's another problem with people who want to download the entire site: They see the page, how much infos are on it and instantly tell their download-tool to download it. After that they may take a coffe-brake or something and won't realise that their download-tool is only downloading warning-sites.
And have you ever seen, how big those warning sites are? Some 10-15KB if I remember correctely... (Yes, I tried out the ban-mechanism too... IP: 62.167.83.179, but I got a new one in the meantime)
And, smart like I am *gg*, I also got a solution for this problem: Tell your ban-script not to DISPLAY the warning but to REDIRECT all requests to the same page (for example http://argonopedia.ppcis.org/banerror.php).
If you do so, download-tools will download this error-page only once and all other requests don't have a big affect on the traffic, because they're not even a full KB big.
Redirecting with PHP:
[before any text-output]
Header('Location: address');
_________________
To an artificial mind, all reality is virtual.
[The Animatrix] |
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| Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:28 pm |
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My ban script isn't my ban script. It's just this forum's own ban script. All the ban mechanism does is add your IP to the bans table.
As for this:
| TheBrain wrote: |
| I have to say, I don't believe this banning really helps keeping down your traffic. Maybe a little. |
Hard figures tell me that it really is helping to keep my traffic down. I have the SNMP data from my server's switch port, and of course I have all the logs to peruse, and peruse them I do.
If I were to try to impliment temporary bans, I'd need to modify the phpBB's ban table and mod phpBB a bit. That's not usually trivial, so I'm playing wait-and-see for the moment.
_________________
I didn't want to hurt you, but you're pretty when you cry
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED |
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| Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:58 am |
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OK, made a small, but very significant, modification. Well, two.
Firstly, if you are logged in, the ban is very temporary - only about a minute. It's possible to abuse that by reducing the download rate of a mirroring tool, but in that case we'd know who was abusing our site and would be able to lambast them / report the behaviour to their ISP / ban their account. Only if you're not logged in will you get your IP address banned for real. The warning message has changed to reflect this (although I'd appreciate it if people refrained from testing it to see!)
Secondly, for the first minute or so of a ban, the message you get on screen is the same as the blocking message for a logged in user who's using up too much bandwidth - just a line of text, no graphics, no further links. Not even any HTML. Only once the download tool has stopped trying to mirror should this become the usual "you've been banned" screen.
So, in full - if you're scared you'll accidentally get banned, log in - it won't happen, but you might get inconvenienced if you're very fast. If you're logged in, but you're sharing a proxy with non-logged-in users, they could still get your proxy's IP address banned. I can't work around this at the moment.
EDIT: What's it like to be banned?
Click here! -> http://argonopedia.ppcis.org/test.php
_________________
I didn't want to hurt you, but you're pretty when you cry
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED |
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| Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:55 pm |
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Good work! Those changes are definitely a nice improvement.
I also like the two different ways of banning anonymous and logged-in users.
Keep up the good work.
_________________
To an artificial mind, all reality is virtual.
[The Animatrix] |
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| Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:51 pm |
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Hi all
I got banned this afternoon and thanks to Mr. Handby I'm now unbanned.
I want to prevent getting banned again so I think I might need to check if I have a webexelarator (spelling) because I simply don't know.  How do I do that? and how do I change it to make it save for me to browse Argonedia?
Thanks for any help.
Neo |
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| Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:25 pm |
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